Care Matters Podcast Values-Based Recruitment, Part Three
Welcome to part three of Care Matters podcast collaboration with Impact the Intimacy and Health Foundation funded Adult Social Care Implementation Centre. We now continue our discussion on values based recruitment with guests. Paul Rooney, Professional Advice at the Northern Ireland Social Care Council.
Good afternoon.
Ali Upton, Learning and Development Manager at Scottish Social Services Council.
Hi, Laura.
Andrew Bell, Program Manager. We CARE Wales and Social Care Wales
Hi there Laura.
And Jon Kerr, Head of Workforce Capacity and Skills for Care.
Hi.
…but they are one of the biggest workforces in the system, so we need to start calling them out. We need to start calling them a social care workforce because we know what a nurse workforce looks like or a doctor or workforce or a social worker, police. So the identity of this workforce needs to be worked upon and promoted across the system.
So you mentioned there, I mean, the really big challenge that the size and complexity of the workforce and the huge societal value that they bring, but also that that the diversity of that. And I wonder if there is a particular tension there between efforts that they have been made to standardise or centralise by virtue of various meeting and qualifications, registrations and so on, but also and while still having flexibility of the workforce. Right. From, you know, people who want to employ RPA and less people who are part of a much larger organization and a more well recognized career pathway, perhaps. And I think does anybody want to come in here? But those particular sort of polarizing tensions, Ali, I suppose just because it builds on what you shared? Paul, Certainly our experience in Scotland having a registered workforce across social care.
Absolutely. In a positive way raises profile. It raises status, it gives us a statement of value and a statement of professionalism that is held by the individual that is understood across organizations. And that to explain that we are going through and embarking on a future proofing of the register in Scotland. And it says particularly this is why I wanted to come in to address that that tension of holding status and yet recognizing the need both for the individual worker but also for the people of Scotland, the need to have a flexible workforce.
So we are moving towards a much more flexible register and the quality Commission's basis to that register. So there is going to be an easier opportunity for movement across working with Chilterns and working with adults and also looking to a more responsive model of CPI that underpins that registration and that CPO will have a responsiveness to the needs.
The message about a learning opportunity and signposted learning, responding to the role in which somebody currently is, but also responding nationally. If there is a change in policy or legislation and through all of these developments within the future proofing program that the concern is to be responses, to be flexible without diminishing the status, the responsibility around safeguarding and protection.
Also the responsibility to support individual workers learners in their career pathways and create a better signposting of those opportunities.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Thank you. And Jon, did you do you want to come in here?
Yeah. I mean, I mean, in terms of intensive registration in England, we don't have a registered social care workforce except for nurses, social workers and all. T So, you know, there is, there isn't registration in place. So but I think the point I wanted to a couple of things I want to pick up in terms of, you know, there are a couple of bits of work that the government are quite interested in, such as the care workforce pathway.
We're currently developing the workforce strategy for adult social care in England as well. So to, to, to, to go alongside the NHS. One was published recently and so those kind of things at that strategic level are all happening. But I think I wanted to pick up on the point that Paul made about the churn in the stats in terms of massive, massive issue.
But what we see from a workforce statistics we collect is actually a lot of actions between providers within the sector. So it's not necessarily losing people to other sectors that does happen, but there's a lot of movement within and providers within the system. And I think if we recruit people with the right values in the first place to those organizations or the by connections that can help with.
The other thing I think is really, really important is the idea that we've got an increase, an increasing demand for social care workers going forward. We projected we're going to need another 440,000 people working in social care in England by 2035. So how do we find those people? So you've got real people that are moving around between existing providers and the existing kind of pool of talent that we've got.
But actually, how do we try to encourage and welcome new people that haven't previously thought about careers and social care into the sets are actually, I think values based recruitment provides us with an opportunity to think more broadly about, well, you know, you might not experience in sets, but you have transferable skills. You have the core values that would really fit within this set so we can start looking at other demographics, looking at try to encourage more men to work in social care, looking at trying to capitalize on the kind of demographic bulge of young people that are coming into the into the workforce over the next couple of years.
And how do we have to encourage more of the more young people to think about careers and care and focusing on values and transferable sort of experience and having a way of recruiting that takes that into account, unaware of articulate and jobs that that makes that clear can be a way that we can maybe try and meet some of those challenges and increase the pool of talent rather than just of the merry go round of people that are moving forward provide That's another bit of actually increasing the capacity overall.
It's a really interesting point you make there about Jane. And I didn't know and the data particularly on that we find that people move around between providers and also thinking about untapped workforces as well, recruiting different types of people who might he might not have considered care work before. Do you feel, Andrew, that that that's perhaps a way of meeting some of these challenges in looking at the workforces as a whole?
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I think that's the key thing with it with this when we're thinking about building up our capacity, building up our workforce is how are we connecting with people, how we reaching people and how do we get to these hard to reach groups or whatever the groups that we're trying to kind of get to?
And I think what we've seen, and it's probably true across all our nations, is the way people search for jobs has changed dramatically. People's expectation has shifted significantly. People won't wait a week for a reply from an application or for attendees or notification if they don't get it now. Instead, it's that kind of society that we're in now where everything is much faster paced.
And I think it's really important when we think about the recruitment and obviously in putting forward the values based route as being the model is then how you how you set that within the context of our environment that we're in now. And we re doing some studies around, working around with different generation, Generation Z, their demands and needs the different because it does change.
And I think it's important to, to not only make the advert look very clear and present both settled and all of those things, but actually then how do you get the right pairs of eyes on it? How do you get to the people? What tools do you use? What matters do you incorporate? How do you do it? You know, and what is a very digital age.
But there's still a lot of people who don't necessarily connect with those formats as well. So and that in itself creates a lot of challenge, but that's the supplementary elements. I think that needs to build into values based recruitment to really give it an opportunity to really flourish as it needs to.
And have you had any successes in changing that process to make sure the right eyes are on it?
The I think the way that we try and work it through, I mean, I work within social care Wales which is part of we with has we have is so the program campaign around here and the way that we try and support employers to think through is who you're trying to target, who you're trying to reach and then going to where they are.
So I'm no expert in social media, but you know, things like Snapchat, things like TechEd, all of those and those elements that younger audiences will connect with, whether that's who you're trying to reach and that's the place to go. If you're trying to reach certain demographics, then there's certain models or approaches are more effective. If you're going to areas that have poor Internet, well busses, train station platforms, billboards, you know, there's other ways to kind of connect.
Look at the messages out there. And so it's about understanding who you're trying to get to. And that's what we're finding is the learning is about understanding that and then seeing what is the best fit for that particular audience group.
Thank you. And Paul thinking about, say, in that audience, how do you know you're reaching who you need to reach and thinking about that the workforce as a whole, thinking about and unleashing this untapped potential, perhaps?
Well, I mean, from experience, we know within our Register of Social Care staff, we have a recommitment of working well. They are very hungry for learning and development. So there is a commitment. People who come in to social care, as I said earlier, often have an ongoing altruism around why they're there and why they choose a career.
We have a very challenging time because I suppose, as John outlined, we have an increased need for social care services and individual supports. We are competing with all of the industry for a diminishing workforce within the UK. And I suppose there's a real responsibility on organizations understanding how they become an employer of choice. So what does that look like for an organization?
So really it is about looking at obviously trying to recruit the right people in a value based way. It's seeing it as a journey is as opposed to a recruitment campaign. It's about investing in the workforce in those individuals careers, offering good induction supervision, all those clear career pathways, articulating what you can receive when you go into a social care organization and really trying to offer good working conditions.
And that's, I think there's been a bit of a change around, I suppose, in some areas from some of the organizations that I've worked alongside around being a bit more flexible and agile around the type of people. You know, a few years ago you had these are the shifts you have to do. There was no agility or flexibilities or organizations have had to learn to be more flexible in terms of and, you know, the type of vacancies or opportunities that may be around.
And I think understanding your workforce is really, really critical because if you only start to engage with your workforce at exit interviews, you really have a problem. So you really should be developing that relationship with your workforce the whole way through their journey in your organization. Because we know, as John said, some people may before four for 50 extra an R and there's a rationale behind that because people's tenancies are often you know, they're having to maybe do 60, 70 hours a week to earn a reasonable living wage, then that's not right.
And we have to find ways of improving that because how do you expect people to continue to learn and develop and train and complete qualifications when they're working 60, 70 hours a week? It's not possible. This workforce needs care and it needs to be respected. And all those things are really important as an organization. And we need, I think, to do a lot more unpacking with what keeps people in jobs.
And it's not rocket science. It's about feeling valued, feeling part of an organization, feeling that they're working in a meaningful environment where there are really good outcomes and that that that the policies within organizations are supportive of that acknowledgment and recognition are really, really important for this workforce. So there's a lots of simple things that some organizations do really well and therefore keep and retain their staff better.
So there is, you know, people don't move around the system for no reason. So we need to do a lot more work about understanding why and how you can start to help organizations put in place things that that are very, very much supportive of maintaining morale and good support. Lots of people leave social care rules because of their perception of management or leadership, poor management or leadership or not being treated well or not being supported and trained properly.
And we know that retention is a big issue. So people leave social care very fast within six months in the year because they're working in really complex areas and they haven't got the right supports to develop themselves and to build a capability and capacity and resilience. So there's reasons why people move around and leave.
So if I were a large provider and I was convinced by what you said, how would I in basic terms begin to get to know my workforce better? So have the, you know, before the exit interview, what are the opportunities to get to know what work is value and what's going on? What's going on with my workforce?
Communication I think Laura, you know, being able to connect with your with your staff and really good example for me over COVID whenever, you know, it was a very scary time for particularly community staff and domiciliary care staff. And they reported back during that time that they had more contact with their managers and their supervisors over COVID than they had prior to COVID.
And that made the difference in terms of holding people, being able to go out in really challenging environments. Lots of people didn't want care or didn't want people in their homes. So I think communication, communication, communication and taking the information that is given and looking at how you can collectively make things better. And it's not all about money either, you know, So some of these things are not about money.
And with that, be mirrored by your experience, Ali?
Yes. I just want to give an example in in Scotland, the place you were supporting the support already, the Fair Work and Social care agenda and program on one of the workstreams within that is around Effective Voices is building on what you're sharing around communication. Paul But bringing in a set of standards around effective voice and currently we're testing those with a as a spectrum of organizations across social care.
So it's looking at the opportunities that are there for staff to have that voice. Yes, be it through supervision, but also through team discussions. What are their opportunity to support innovation and improvement within their service up to a more collective voice across organizations? And I suppose I wanted to share that. But also picking up on the focus that the right concern we have all shared about existing workforce.
And I suppose I wanted to draw particular attention to what's been one of the implications of, of the, the, the straitened rates of attrition from the sector is that we've had evidence in Scotland of accelerated progression into senior roles within social care. And so a particular concern and attention needing to be given to those within those senior roles who then you turn around, who then become involved and responsible for recruitment, for supporting new staff, for induction, etc., etc..
So looking at the leadership and wellbeing needs of seniors, senior staff has become a particular focus in our work. And then the I suppose the other area of specific area of recruitment and focus groups we've not touched on as yet is around international recruitment and it's another aspect of our work has been working in collaboration with the Refugee Council in Scotland to support recruitment and wellbeing of refugees and asylum seekers engaged in social care.
So but that that the issue of effect of voice support to seniors building that capacity and wellbeing in the point in the workforce that at the moment seems to be almost the buttress holding that pressure from what's been a contracted. I mean the an extended recruitment crisis.
So see looking and in a really long term way about the issue of retention. So looking at how you really get promotion,
Where the pressure points are, you know, slowly
and as the last points about and the diversity of the workforce and the international nature of it as well. Jon.
Well, yeah, I mean, just picking up a couple of those points, I think can we did a piece of work a few years ago called Secrets of Success, which was a bit of analysis of organizations with low turnover rates and what characteristics they had in comparison to those sets. And I think it wasn't a surprise necessarily that the positive workplace culture and values came very came through very strongly in that piece of work, you know, So, you know, there was a correlation between the positivity of the Robinson organization and keeping staff.
I mean, you know, there are those there's other analysis we've done with links which links it to more kind of things you might expect was this five factors that we can see the influence and retention through our workforce dataset that we collect. So those things like pay is a significant one and you know, the ability to work full time hours, availability, full time hours, 0 hours contracts, whether or not they're whether or not they're offered and whether people have preexisting qualification.
And do people have access to a land development pathway when they when there was this? And they seem to be the fundamental things and they're the big picture things, but actually underneath, I think it's what we've always as an organization, do you have a post of workplace culture and that that influences all those, all those other things? Often I think international recruitment and interest in what and obviously that's been there's been a massive influx of international recruits in certain parts of the workforce in England.
And I'm sure the other nations as well over the last years and recent changes to visa regulations will have an impact on that. And I think it'll be interesting to see what happens in terms of that. But underneath that, we support those individuals in a value based way as well to ensure that they're, you know, safeguarded and are not open to abuse and have the right support structures in place to be able to work in this, you know, come into the set to be supported and set to and be able to be the best to compete with that once it's I don't know flipping about but you know there's think culture is at the root of everything. Organisations with a good workplace culture will do all these things as a result of that and that positive workplace culture and work. And those exist to try and find that kind of intangible thing, if you like, is quite, quite interesting. But it's lost my thread a little bit. But I think it's really important to understand the impact of those factors on, you know, the, you know, the, the, the workforce and the way the workforce, you know, stays or leaves.
You. And I think it's a really important point. The event is that there are there's these various means by which we can improve police based recruitment and retention. But that underpinning it is this more supportive culture in the workplace. So I guess and thinking about really practical details now, thinking of the range of resources, toolkits, ideas, case studies, exemplars that they might be out there and you know, if an organisation or even an individual and recruiting a peer wants to adopt a different approach, where might be some of the places you might direct them, what sort of resources and ideas, Andrew?
Yeah, we've developed a lot of kind of case studies and stories which have values at the heart of it. So we openly actively share them to for all to utilize. And we, we link with employers here in Wales where they can use those videos as part of their recruitment journey to help kind of articulate what the different roles are about a particular resource that we've seen some real positive kind of outcomes from this and a good question of care, which is the is a it's a it's a joint venture across all the nations, actually, because it's development, but it's a really good tool to help people reflect on your values because actually
when you when you want, you need the right people to come to your door. So you need to present the right offer, which is the opposite. But actually helping people themselves see their values base is part of that as well as next. That's kind of the part of the fix or the joint. And I think tools like a question of care I think are really good at doing that because they tease out and kind of help people think, well, what would I do in the situation?
And then it really cleverly helps you understand your choices and supports you and your thinking in regards to where that journey goes. So I think there's those that they've been really, really well received. And we've know that when linking with schools and colleges, because I think we also try to think of the next generation of a workforce as well, not just firefighting the issues we have right now, we need to think actually we've got another cohort, people coming out into the into the arena or into the working market and how connecting with them and tools like that have been really effective to help them sort of see what it's like, I guess almost, and reflect on their choices and different scenarios.
It sounds like it really fantastic range of resources. Ali?
Yes, I just want to echo Andrew equally at the value question, a question of care. It continues to grow. It's usage, which we report on every month. It's it never it never dips. And we host it within our careers websites, a career in care. And on that website for individuals, it's I suppose, a level beyond a question of care.
We've created as a set of pre employment resources introductions into different aspects of working and care very much based on visual, on 360 video etc. just to give as much of that impression. This can happen. It is three steps removed, but those equally are resources and we know employers themselves use them. I think also that for that pre-employment stage, we've created a ten steps guide.
We've worked with employability providers, work coaches, training providers to create, I suppose, a signposting to resources for that very early conversation that it might be it might be a happening within the school or careers advisor, it might be through a jobcentre or a work coach and that that an individual might have so that those people who are in those places of conversation with individuals, they have to hand the material that that's relevant for them.
And, and then for employers, we have we have co-produced a range of guide working with refugees and asylum seekers, etc., and continue to do that in response to any particular hard to reach group and what will be of value for employers in terms of just Henson tips as it as it works. Alongside that we have safer recruitment right values right people guide so there's a set of resources the careers website is where you find a route into all of those other resources.
And it's interesting that you've both mentioned and looking at schools and colleges and building awareness very much in in their younger generation as well. Jon?
Yeah, I was just going to also look question care is, is something that we find it's been very popular resource and can be applied was you know, people who are close to the labour market but also can be applied with, you know, young people in schools and college as well. And then it's got that kind of flexibility.
We're also working with a similar situation or judgment to a curious about care, which is kind of been developed at the moment, which we've we're kind of involved in developing that, which is really interesting. It's a bit more detailed. And we also have, I think, our careers website, which is the kind of the place where what that stuff sits on a lot of our resources about what careers in care are and what they like for potential recruits, particularly young people.
But also this there's resource on their for careers advisors, teachers, those kinds of things. So that that's one resource we've got. We also have we launched the values based recruitment toolkit this year, which is a range of resources across the different aspects of recruitment, retention, work linked to those based recruitment. We run more detailed programs about values based recruitment, retention, including kind of interviewing techniques and that kind of stuff, which, which, which, which we deliver.
We also deliver some of about value conversations, which looks at values based conversations that we have and in terms of supervision and that kind of thing as well. And we also have a program which we run with integrated care systems in England called and Valuable People, which includes values based recruitment. Within that as well as things like workforce planning, using data and various other aspects around recruitment, retention, which can of systems of use to sort of work with providers within there and various other bits and bobs as well.
They're the ones that kind of springs to mind. But you know, we have a lot of tools and resources that employers can use to, you know, embed that kind of stuff which, which sits on the other skills care website or that we can, we can deliver for providers as well.
I mean a fantastic range of resources that you will mentions which should cover many aspects from that. So the sort of technical and regulatory pitches as well that values based recruitment, but also explaining much more about the diverse roles that there are in care across the boards. And I think that that's been a really interesting insight through the whole of the podcast and from the nitty gritty of the how to and right up to how this care and get valued in society as a whole and the parity of esteem that care works should be held in.
And so I wanted to thank you all for your contributions today. And honestly, I ask if there's one thing that you wanted to really articulate about values based recruitment or a values based approach more generally, and what would that be? What would it be important for people to know about their approach that you might not heard anything about it before or he might be nervous in its application?
Yeah. I think it's useful for I mean, we were kind of a promotion and have done our own working in social care and what that looks like and I think, you know, promoting this workforce in terms of what it actually brings to society and what it provides is, is, is an ongoing piece of work. And we know that many people will not be able to live in the local community with this workforce.
So I think I think I would encourage others to get on our websites. All of us here are around the table today have really extensive resources and information and promotional materials of of giving people a real feel of what social care is. If you're interested in a career in social care. And it is an amazing career and it is so diverse, you can work across so many different sectors.
So I think we need to encourage people to explore what social care is and what it does and make sure our resources are available for people are accessible. I mean, we have really accessible resources for person assistance out there, although we don't regulate them, but we know that they need support and they need good information around their own talent development. So it's about having free resources that people can access to improve their working day and on their skills.
Fantastic. Thank you. Andrew?
I think, simply put, I guess it really can make a difference. I think, you know, I think that's really the key values which really can make a difference. But and what it can do as us almost as a self are, but actually makes you reflective. So the whole purpose of how it works is how it fits for the wider organizations understanding.
And I think it can begin it can be actually quite a nice lever to help begin exploring all of those other key parts of the wider whole to sort of really kind of look at it in a in a true holistic way. But absolutely, it's about and it will, you know, it can be support finding the right people that we need in our sector.
Fantastic. Jon?
Yeah, I think if I was to have a key message, I think it's the values based recruitment, retention, you have to look at it as a as a holistic exercise. And in order to do it and all the facts is way and in order to find, you know, the right people with the right values for that for your organisation, it's important that you look up all of your processes, start fresh and think about, you know, all these consistent with our values as an organization.
If we can do that and if we can, you know, live in a live our values through the way that we deliver care, then that's only going to be helpful. Positive impacts on not only our workforce and our organization, but I feel that the care that we deliver to the people we support. And I think, you know, this is a key to indeed able to do that more effectively.
Absolutely. So getting it right, right from the very beginning to the very finish. Fantastic. And Ali.
Yes. And I would, of course, echo all that that the three of you just said. How did you come in last on this? It's a bit hard, but there's something and even if you just take the keywords, value people, relationship, conversation, the point of recruitment is one point in a whole life story of our as human beings engaging in care and in relationship with people who provide support and care.
So if we can think of how we improve that conversation about care and about valuing people and yes, if we're thinking about it for recruitment, let's expand that thinking in that experience to other places of more societal conversation about the value of care and the value of people, and repositioning that slightly from where it sits at the moment.
And what a fantastic point to end on, and I very much encourage everybody listening to take up the opportunity to look at some of the resources, case studies and approaches that have been mentioned throughout the podcast. And in addition to this and on the impacts website and we've just released and a whole slew of resources about values based recruitment.
So the findings from the network that was run and some video explainers about what there is values based recruitment and then looking at and understanding how that works in practice, right from understanding the organization. See some tips on advertising the role shortlisting and interview and after the interview, very much picking up on the rest of it where the relationship starts.
You know, this is just the beginning of things here. And so I want to thank you all very much for your contributions today. And it's been a pleasure listening to all your experiences and insights. Thank you very much.